The Cloud Guardians OOC

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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by Rockfalcon »

@Vipor: Thanks. I'll edit the form now.

@Radda: I was also considering the second-pair-of-wings idea.
If we want to pursue that, thought, here we have some options.

1: We could give them a second smaller pair of ruddering wings that sprouts from their lower back and allows them to bank, turn, and sideslip with relative ease.

2: We could throw caution to the winds and instead of just giving them wings after their transformation turn them into a completely new kind of being, something with birdlike legs and a tail rather than just a human body with wings slapped on. It could take a little designing, but it wouldn't be that hard.


As for the cities, I explained those earlier: balloons, fans, alloys, all of it combined allows them to drift peacefully amongst the clouds, but get out of the way quick when a storm system rushes through.

And lastly, the clothes.
Some of us may want the feathers to be their only upper body protection against the high-altitude winds and cold; some may want clothing.
That's just a problem your character's going to have to figure out how to fix, now, isn't it? We can't do everything for them before the roleplay starts. What's the fun in that? :devil:


I will probably make the first post today or the next. The RP will start after the fairy, or whatever it was, has vanished and we're all gathered in someone's living room staring at where it was, probably still gasping and aching from what it did when it gave us wings. So, to answer your questions, yes, we do already all know each other. These teens are all part of the same friend group.
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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by Iliad »

I think I like the first idea. Although that may just be because I am unimaginative and can't imagine harpy people from our characters.
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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by Rockfalcon »

Iiiii am actually going to draw that to see how it works. Give me a few minutes...


EDIT: May try to actually post some of the drawn images. Means I'll have to get an imgur or something, but whatever. sigh.

So rather than feet like a normal bird has, when in avid form (if we go with this idea) they'd have backjointed legs and feet much more like an ostrich would have, three toes in front and one dewclaw-like digit in the back. This would allow them to go... quite fast, but they'd also be very tall. And their wings wouldn't have to be so big! Plus, they could pull the legs up, tuck them in, and be much more aerodynamic than they would alternatively be because those big clumsy human legs would be out of the way.

But I don't know- its up to you guys. I'll see if I can post some images here illustrating what I was thinking.... now how would I go about that....


DOUBLE EDIT: Alright, here we go! Picture time! hopefully this works.
Spoiler
Turns out the internet is dumb and i'm not good at computers.
These should be right.... dear god.
Image 1
Image 2

OKAY! THAT WORKED!


TRIPLE EDIT: Radda... that was the IC thread...
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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by Radda111 »

hmm at first when you said make thier body and legs different, all i imagined was a bird with a human head ((i know, my brain juices just ain't flowing today)) but when i saw your sketches I actually likes what i saw. If you want, i can do some sketches digitally tomorrow or the day after, a bit more complete maybe, and show you guys. Maybe of the islands and the fairy and the wings and maybe even the bone structure..... i gotta stop, i'm getting ahead of myself. :derr:

Anyway, i don't know which i prefer now, which is annoying.We will have to take a vote. I think if we are going to be able to interact with the population on the floating cities, we would hav to be able to transform back, so the second set of wings would work best, BUT i we are just talking with the Underworld population, then we wouldn't really need to change back right?


And um, i'm sorry but what is an IC?
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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by Rockfalcon »

IC stands for in character, OOC stands for out of character.

I'm gonna be sketching winged birdleg people all day. And they'll be interacting, hopefully, with both populations- they'll have to figure out how to best remedy this issue!
In their avid form, (I like that word, avid) they won't really have problems with diddlydoo parts, it'll be hidden under feathers. But they could stash clothing somewhere for their change back.... Hm!!

I'll probably sketch the fairy as well and MY FAVORITE MY FAV FAV FAV I'm gonna draw some of the mutant critters from the lower world! oh boy oh boy
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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by vipor »

First off, I am sorry.
Tried to hold this in, but I always lose these fights with my brain.

Lets tackle the seasickness first.
Seasickness is caused when our eyes and inner ear disagree. This is caused because our inner ear tells us we are standing stable on a floor that is ( to our senses) unmoving. Our eyes however tell us that the horizon is moving. They can't get on the same line and as all arguments. Everybody stuck inbetween is screwed.
Or to keep it in the science mood. Our brain listends to both and decides that one of them must be wrong. AKA your halucinating. This tends to be caused by toxins and most toxins are ingested orally your brain will induce cleansing treatment.
This basicly means upping the production of histamine which will treat the believed infection as an allergy.

Implant, nice idea but faulty at best.
Problem here is our bodies hate us. The implant would keep on injecting us with anti-histamines to keep the reaction down. Now here is where our bodies come in.
They build up a tolerance to substances thet either exist in our bodies naturally or those we put into them.
Hence addicts need to up their dose to keep gettin the high of the first time.
We supress the histamine level, our bodies get annoyed and make more.
We up the anti-histamines to supress it further and the body make more.
This is an endless loop till the meds can't keep up and seasickness returns.

And the whole 'people will cope with it and grow over it'. Sorry, but no.
It will take many many MANY generations to get over it, if we are lucky a few million times.
Not to mention the whole being up above the clouds means the air is to thin to breathe normally.

Let me offer this solution to the whole problem.
Again, it has to deal with the city.

We need a city that is both level and able to keep in the air.

Think of the city as a cup in a bowl.
The bowl is the section that is essential to keeping the city flying and all pieces we prefer to ignore.
This piece is made of the tungsten metal with the mesh we talked about earlier. It contains the fans to keep us from deviating from our location. The water purification system, sewer collection, air filtration and all that stuff.
The liquids and air will move through fexible and strong tubes into the inner cup.
The city itself and the fundation are seperated by an liquid cusion. This allows the fundation to move while keeping the inner city compleetly level.

Now the air problem and the horizon.
A semi permable forcefield. It will register the amount of O2 in the city. It will allow for circulation and winds, but will keep the atmosphere sustainable for human ( and animal) life. We will still get powerfull winds but the forcefield will lock up during treathening winds. On the lower part of the forcefield an low level hologram will show an fake horizon so to everybody there is always an stable horizon.

This allows us to live without seasickness on the city.
The balloons will just be to give people a safe feeling.
Basicly, please don't get me wrong, people are idiots. If they don't know how something works for which they rely on to live, they freak out. Science will be pushed down the rabbit hole and killed in it's tracks.
City will burn, people will blame science and things go from bad to worse.
Happened befor and will happen every, single, time.

As we are going for semi sci-fi and to cut down on the weigth and because anti-gravity fields are fun.
The cities had to be brought there. Underneath every floating city, at the planet's survace is a propulsion system.
Underneath the city there is the second part of the system allowing the city to float up from the earth to it's current location.
We don't have the ability to do this now, but the first systems have been build. I'm assuming we get better at things as we go. Also we don't have to explain how the city can carry so much weigth by balloons and fans.
The system on the survace will use termal dynamics plugged into the planet's core and sercived by androids or an unnamed work force.


Now I must confess I am not a vegetarian, not planning to and neither is Damien.
However I'm sure people will cry if we build a animal processing plant inside a city.
Let's create a secundary floating facility we will never visit.....Maybe....Possible.......
Every city gets one. Now will part of the veggies and fruits will be grown in the city. Not to be green, but to be effecient.
The water will be in large tanks and through these tanks there will be pipes. These pipes will contain warm air and other warm thuff that needs to be cooled down. First tanks will contain plants that need warmth and each tank will have plants that need less and less warmth. Cooling down the pipes and lowering the heating bills.

But to get enough food for large amount of people, you need more room than the city can handle.
So the secundary facility just for food. Plants will again be grown in water and the tanks will again be used to cool down the pipes.
Instead of simply growing animals and slaugthering them, Just grow the parts we need.
Science is already growing meat, lets keep going with we get better and grow meat there. Atleast that is all we know.


Lets see.
Floating cities, check.
Food supply, check.
....
Oh yeah, bird people.


It is true, our skin cannot carry feathers as it is.
So apart from the blood and bone changing through both forms, lets do the same for the skin.
All animals but us have loose skin. Meaning the skin is not stuck to the flesh. With us it is. It's less of a major change than the bone and blood thing.

Wanted to say placement of wings might be a problem, but yeah.
We don't have to lose the arms. lookie lookie
True our wings will be longer, but our wings don't need to be 3 times our charries side.
If our wings are placed just below our shoulderjoints, like in the lookie link, if our wings reach from below their shoulders and stretching down to their butts, the wings should give us enough lift to fly.

I can understand farting out a tail everytime we grow wings feels weird.
If we go with the altered skin so we can have feathers, why not a a row of longer feathers on the outside of the legs. Keep the legs together and you have a tail. Keeping them seperate and you have legs with nice looking sideburns.

To have our wings, we need more muscles in our chest. Now this gives us good news and bad news.
First off we will need to alter our chest shape. For better muscle attachment a V shaped chest would be helpful for this and if makes us more aerodynamic. Now here is the problem with muscles in the chest area.
Let's look at the amazones. Take their archers. The ones that only fired right handed didn't have a breast on that side.
Those that are trained to fire with both arms have no breasts at all.

Breasts are mostly fatty tissue. So I am sorry but the double D's are going to shrink.

Thing is, I have a problem with the transforming if there arn't rules attached to it.
I don't mind the transformation itself but not like this.
Person runs off, chased by the guards. Turns a corners, changes and flies/free falls away befor the guards reach the corner.
Changing takes time and causes pain.
So with the growing of wings it should take atleast a 30 minutes for the transformation to take place and it should hurt. We are tearing open skin, feathers will pierce the skin all over the place.
Also it should take atleast a week for our bodies to have changed to the lighter bonestructure and such.
Thinking about it, we don't even loose that much mass. We do grow a pair of wings.
However even though our blood changes, we still need a ton more air.

Here the birds come back in. Birds have other lungs than we have.
They have a lung, followed by an airpocket which is connected to an airpocket that runs past their intestines.
We have a diaframe to pull vacume and open our lungs.
Birds use muscles over their body to pull air into the airsack the farthest back. The air will run towarts the lungs, allowing the lungs to get two passes to get the oxygen out of the air.

And please, don't tell me birds don't have airsacks and just have lungs.
During my job I've done enough necropsies on birds to know how their organs are placed and how they look like.
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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by Kaidakuma »

Oh wait... Does this mean I can't join? Darn...
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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by vipor »

Finally had time to read the new posts.
Sorry toke a few hours to get all my thoughts in a row.

Why did I say the floating citeis are locked in place.
Simple, air currents.
Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but they will be pushed into eachother at one point or another.
Not to mention it is nice to know where friendly cities are located and actually be in range to fly with ships from one city to another.

I don't mind the mostly human or harpy like avians.
Harpies have a more deadly kick after all.

About the creatures.
So far the creatures attack, kidnap (eat?) humans. If they see our kids, we are food. No question about it.
If they see us as strangely mutated creatures we might have a chance with the more friendly creatures.
I am kinda against all monsters are equally evil thing.
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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by Radda111 »

woah......



First things first,... You've done necropsies on Birds! O.o :t-O_O:

Did you do that picture yourself? thats pretty cool, and a decent looking diagram too.

Ok ok, lets get my thoughts in order.
Seasickness. Sailors don't get seasick do they? not after a while of getting used to it. And i'm thinking that the city, being large, would be unable to move very quickly. actually really slow right? so the horizon wouldn't move that much would it, and the city wouldnt be rocking like a boat, it would just glide along at the same altitude yeah? I agree that the regular dosage of drug wouldn't work too well, especially if it's a naturally found chemical already in our body. But i've heard of people, Even now with our limited science, that have had problem with their inner ear and balance aand that sort of thing and they hve fixed it with an implantation that works sort of like a stabiliser or something. I don't know for sure.

I like the forcefield idea quiet a bit actually. i think it would solve many problems. I always thought the food would be supplies from other floating islands, that were specifically made for food production. sort of like importing. each day Food would be brought over and stored in different things, containers and silo's and such.
I thought the water could be held under the city naturally keeping it away from the sun and keeping it cool.

I love the idea of chemically grown food. Maybe it isn't as healthy now, but in the future, when this takes place they could have perfected the science of creating it.


The feathers and skin. There is a way to get the skin to grown feathers and some humans have actually done it, through a mutation in their DNA and genes. But there is always the possibilty of science in the future. We never know what leaps and bounds we can achieve.

Now about the chest shape. I agree that is has to have a second set of Muscles put in place, but! We are still part human, and with women, the breasts are an essential part of the human makeup. We need them to feed our children when first born. This is a hard one because Humans are mammils and give birth to live young, While birds are Avian and lay eggs that do not need 'mothers milk'. I think the breasts should stay in some form, maybe not Huge like some people. but they need to have something there for children and human DNA.

I agree that it will take some time for our blood and lungs to adjust, and a week sounds suitable BUT the blood and lungs, and even the skin, is transferred both in human and Avian form. so once the week is up, they will always have blood like that and lung and skin that would adjust permanently.

I dont' think the tranformation should take that long. not 30 whole minutes. I think 10 or 15 at most. And i'm sure they could rush it a bit and go down to 5 if they had to. Of course it would be painful, and i think their should be at least a little blood, not a lot though. Remember that this is kinda magical as well. So if our kids were trapped somewhere, and they were there long enough, they could escape.




Before i say any more, i would like to say that i think this is turning into a Debate, :t-xD: which isnt' a bad thing, but maybe we need to tone it down just a little, give some lee-way t the Magical aspect and the Futuristic aspect.
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Re: The Cloud Guardians OOC

Post by vipor »

*bows* Bachelor in applied sience final year and a 12 month internship in the lab of a zoo. Including necropsies on birds, mammels and fish.
Sailors are used to it, but don't get seasick because they are used to it.
When your on a ship and starting to feel sick, look at the horizon. Know you are moving and moving with the horizon. Some people have less trouble with seasickness, but this does not count for everybody.

The second problem is that the higher you get, the stronger the winds get. A kite will not move so much, but a city high above the clouds will keep on moving. True it may not move like a ship in a storm, but moving slightly all the time is worse than getting caught in a storm.

And no, I did not draw the pic. I'm viporion on DA.

Hydroponics can be kept underground. Is more space efficient. All I did was use it as a cooler for warm pipes. Using what would else be trash warmth for something usefull and taking away the need of building an special plant to cool the pipes down.

When I said the breasts would shrink I never said they would be fully gone.
Yes, sorry we are going to disect a breast.
The biggest part of the breast in big sizes is mostly fat. This will be gone with the more muscles.
Second you have the milk glands connecting to the nippel.
The milk glands are in three sizes. Small (aa) medium (b-d) and large (DD-up).
The thing is, for an nursing mom with a single baby, you only need the small ones. So when the breasts shrink down to aa, they will still be able to nurse a baby. When a baby gets to the later stages befor birth the milk glands will swell up, changing the aa to a-b. Trowing off our centre of weight for a period of time.

With the time, lets compromise.
It takes time to learn to transform. So lets start with transformations of atleast 30 minuts which they can lessen to 15 minutes.
If things are going real bad, they can take 5 minutes, but the transformation will not be fully compleet. Giving them the ability to fly up to 30 to 60 minutes befor reverting back.

And I did mean it would take atleast a week to change the lungs, blood, bones and skin and that it will remain like that till after their bodies rotted away.

Other thing is, what I just thought off.
We don't even know if our changes are transfered onto the next gen.
We already have bird genes. A lot of our DNA is useless to us. They code things like fish scales, feathers all DNA we don't use.
So the question is double.
Will our kids be like us?
And if so, are normal genes dominant over the avian ones?

Discussions are always fun as long as we keep it civilised.
Thing is, we can discus till we are blue in the face. Create a whole world based science. Make sure everything is based of solid theories.
But in the end it doesn't have to matter.
Rockfalcon is the creator of this world. While we can give background info, point out things and offer theories to solidify everything.
Is Rock says, forget it, my world my rules. We cannot do anything about it but have fun.
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