Need opinions and tips...

[Phenora]

So, I've been reading the Night World books again. Second time, actually, and I've only gotten through the first two. (Secret Vampire and O.O I forgot the name of the other...erm...the one about Ash and Mary-Lynnette, if you know the series. Spellbinder is next on the list) By reading these, and thinking of other things, I have recieved an idea for yet another story. Yet I find myself seeking opinions and maybe some tips or things that might...liven it up, or something. Make it less cliche, I guess... But anyway, my idea in a nut shell:

(Different points will shift to different points of view. Using color to mark that here.)
A new guy has come to school. He's one of those guys. The dark, mysterious ones that wear black and always stay quiet unless directly spoken to. But he's different. Darker then the others, somehow. And those eyes. They're like sapphires, deep blue with that brilliance and unforgettable color. He skips class sometimes, too. Seems to always be there when there's trouble, and always around me when my boy friend is. Of course, my boy friend gets jealous, but this guy...he seems to like watching it. Enjoying it.
This girl...she's so different. A cheerleader but so mellow, compared to those empty headed bozos that make up the rest of the squad. She's so...argh! What am I saying! I'll get her killed! But those eyes...so deep and sad. So...beautiful. The perfect mix of silver and violet, pale and gorgeous. But she has a boyfriend. Not that she likes me, though. But that jerk! He's one of those guys. The lug-head foot ball player that so full of himself, he can't see when those around him are in pain. Ignoring her when the guys come around. If I catch him treating her like that again...

Overview:(Er, what it's about in a narrators point of view) Him, a vampire. Making it as plain as day he's not normal, but no one pays attention. No. They call him emo. And they spit the word like it's poison. But hey, it fits him. And it's not a bad thing, either. Especially not when he has that bad boy rep from his old school. And his dark personality. No one really minds his reputation anyway. Especially not her. The cheerleader. Not quite squad captian, but the best of them. She's got the moves, the looks all the guys want. And she understands him. Mor ethen anyone else could possibly try to, anyway. But what she doesn't know is...he's a vampire. When she finds out, her life is at stake. But not because she knows. No. Everyone knows vampires really do exist. She's only at risk because she knows him. He and his mother are on the run, being chased by an infamous group of professional vampire hunters. Anyone who knows about him is sure to be in their sights as well.

Ok, so the back story I just now thought of, and I might end up changing it up a little. Suggestions for that might help too...but that's it. He's a vampire, she's human. They live in a world where vampires exist and people know. But no one is really scared because humans outnumber them like... twenty to one or soemthing. In other words, there are so few vampires some people never see one in their entire lifetime, so no one usually worries about becoming a victim or a vampire...

[Raneth]

I haven't read any of the Night World books, but the first bit of what you've written sounds cliche. That's not necessarily a bad thing-cliches are cliches because they work and people like them-but it sounds similar to Twilight.

The last part is where the originality lies-the whole thing with vampires being known to society and the vampire hunters going after them. But because that's what's unique about it, you should consider fleshing it out more. Vampires are well known to society-how well known? People aren't afraid of them, but why? Do they know how to recognize them? What makes someone a vampire in your world? Do they drink human blood, can they shapeshift, or are they just paler humans? If they need to drink human blood, it's hard to buy the fact that people don't fear them, unless there are things in place that control them (think True Blood).

Do they have basic rights? If so, why is it allowed for Vampire Hunters to kill them and the people they associate with? If they don't have rights, why not? Are there groups who support vampire rights? How integrated are vampires into society?

I don't mean to inundate you with questions, but you should take the unique part of your idea as far as you can.

[TheStrangeWeirdo]

It doesn't at all seem like Twilight except for the vampire bit and the girl-human guy-vampire love with a triangle, though the girl already has a boyfriend.
Edward isn't a bad, dark boy - he gets high grades, though doesn't hang out with anyone except his family.
Bella isn't a mellow cheerleader - she's a normal, ordinary girl who is hot. She isn't especially popular - not like a cheerleader, and she doesn't have a boyfriend.

It's annoying when people automatically think anything with a vampire and a girl must be Twilight.

I do, however, agree that you should flesh out the details about vampires being known to society, vampire hunters and what constitutes a vampire, exactly.

My advice, if you're doing a POV from both of them - don't do narrator. In fact, don't do a narrator style at all, is my advice.

Also, you need to find a problem. It doesn't seem like there's much of a problem that they have to get around. Girl dumps boyfriend, vampire hooks up with girl.

Cliches - I try to make my books as un-cliched as possible. My characters, the problem, all of it. People do get tired after reading the same old thing every day. I know I wouldn't want to read a book about a brave hero who is extremely passionate about justice if I had read about five books with characters like that. Cliches do get old. If you've read a few books with the cliche, don't use it. If it's only been used once in a book you read, chances are it hasn't been used by other authors.

For example, a character in one of my stories isn't the typical nerdy/wimpy kid who sucks at physical shit but is pretty smart. He's actually pretty ordinary. He isn't popular but he isn't a loner. He's good at sports and some subjects, but not especially. The only extraordinary thing about him is that he does archery, which is how he's going to defend himself in the world I'm using.

[Phenora]

@Raneth Thanks, I forgot about that stuff. Well, mostly forgot to mention it. So here's my ideas on it.

Spoiler

The formulation of all of this is still buzzing around my head. I was thinking of making it something like: People know they exist, know they drink human blood, but most have absolutely no idea how they get the blood. Vampires get blood from "doners" (people who know and don't care that they are what they are) who willingly let them drink, from blood banks and places such as that, and sometimes the missing person you see flash across the news at night is another victim of a vampire and not a runaway or kidnapped person. I guess they aren't afraid because the chances are so low of ever seeing a vampire and the fact the vampires don't flaunt what they are. (May throw in something on the 'power of persuasion' for a better explenation of some of these things) The rights...well, I'll have to work on that later I guess. As for the hunters, I believe most act as assasins.

@TheStrangeWeirdo The whole thing's not a cliche, only the vampire and human in love bit, and that's the only thing Twilight was brought up for. And have that kind of personality has nothing to do with grades, you know. As for the narrator bit, I said it was going to be a point of view thing. I was explaining it in more detail the way a narrator would only for this thread so the whole thing could be better understood. In fact,I called it the "overview" and so that could be understood only mentioned a narrator point of view... As for the problem, read the overview again. The last few sentences. I know how to get a story line, it's not like I take a basic, extremely simplistic idea with only two thoughts (girl and guy) and slap them on paper. Sorry if that was rude, but I believe vampire hunters are a problem, a BIG problem, and that you might have overlooked that.
As for cliches, if you notice the only cliche is the love part, what the two in love are. I know I already said it, but that is the only cliche in this idea. And please take note of this. If you are going to give advice, don't say the same thing twice...

((Agin, sorry if it seemed rude. I in no way meant it to be nor had a reason to make it rude or offensive, if it was in fact either.))

[TheStrangeWeirdo]

Well, okay then, but I didn't say the same thing twice. In my first bit I was addressing Raneth, saying how different Twilight and your book are, and then in the cliche bit I was talking about how I try not to use them because sometimes they're in a lot of books.
Like in a lot of books I've read, the hero is usually someone who is weak and lonely, then finds out he has some special power which he uses to defeat the baddie. I find myself tiring of this sort of character because I've seen it so much, so I'm trying to go for an ordinary guy who becomes vain because he's used to taking what he wants in a post-apocolyptic world, and him walking the fine line between morally wrong and morally right.

[Raneth]

Mod note: Guys, please stay on topic. If someone is asking for help with their writing, don't talk about your own writing in their thread.

Phenora, I had a brief idea that you may discard or keep as you wish-what about the setting? Why not go the full fantasy route? I know you want high school, but a lot could be done with a medieval setting. Maybe no one fears vampires because the entire village is owned and governed by vampire hunters. That would also solve the problem of why the vampire hunters can do whatever they want, and makes the stakes (no pun intended) higher for any vampire who wants to reside there.

Or maybe if you want to keep the modern setting, make the world a bit more totalitarian, where vampire hunters occupy most positions of power. Vampires are the oppressed, not the predators.

Just random thoughts that might help solve some of the issues I brought up.

[TheStrangeWeirdo]

Sorry Raneth, I was merely using it as an example.

Medieval idea is very attractive. I find people prefer medieval or ancient era settings. High schools are too familiar for most readers. A reader wants to escape from the world they're already in, which in most cases is either work or school - they don't want to be brought back to school (even an adult, in some cases).

That's my opinion. Of course, it might be wrong, but I believe most people are like myself and don't want to revisit a high school.

A vampire and human love, with the human's betrothed added to the mix would be a lot more hectic, because girls in medieval times were supposed to marry whoever their father wanted, usually for political reasons. So her falling in love with a vampire would be scandalous, even though a little cliched (betrothed girl runs off with outsider ).

[Phenora]

I do like the idea of a medieval setting, but some of the things I had in mind wouldn't work with that setting. Like, how the cheerleader and football player break up and how she meets the vampire. Though the town being controlled by vampire hunters can work out. I can say they offered their protection in exchange for the leader being mayor or whatever.

Edit: New idea. I am still in high school and hate it, so I do know how some people will react to it being set there, no matter how important it is for my ideas. I just had a thought, and decided to share for opinions on it. End of the school year, the last, say, month or so. They see each other and blah, blah, blah, boy meets girl. But instead of it all being in school, would it be any better if it was set during summer break, do you think? Where the first few chapters are in school and the rest is some vacation setting, maybe even just the lake nearby or just a park in town. Sound any better?

[TheStrangeWeirdo]

Yes, that does sound marginally better. I'm not sure about the rest of the people, but personally I'd still rather if it wasn't set in modern days. I'm pretty much up for any type of story as long as it's at least post-apocalyptic or something like John Marsden's Tomorrow series (even though I was getting bored of it about half-way through the series).
If you told me the problems with the medieval setting, Raneth and myself might be able to help you.
Like, for example, the girl's father isn't incredibly sexist and, with enough pushing from her, he breaks off the engagement.
That has been known to happen, at least in books.
As to her and the vampire meeting up - maybe in a dark alley way or something? Possibly he hasn't been found out as a vampire, and is working somewhere that he sees her a lot (though out of the sun, if vampires in your story are averse to sunlight)?

[Phenora]

Vampires in my story are much like those of the Night World series. Sunlight doesn't harm them, garlic is a hoax, and invitations are not needed for the entry of homes. But, of course, mine will also have little things that make them different. Don't want to steal ideas.

As for how they break up: her parents or parent, depending on just how I do this, will pass in a tragic car accident or some other freak accident. The boyfriend (football player) has been out of town and has no idea. Comes back and is seen with another girl, the cheerleader (which I have decided will be Natalie) confronts him. He retaliates, and she breaks it off with a quick, strong shove into lake or pond. Other girl comes up and shoves our friend Natalie in and helps football jerk out. Vampire (who is Axel, or Axle, whichever spelling is better) comes in and helps Natalia out of the water whike chewing the others out and informing them of her parents' death. So she actually finally meets the mysterious new guy. (Also important because she's wearing thin white shirt so Axel offers his shirt and takes her home. Well, to his house, where he offers to dry her clothes and she meets his mother.)

And how she finds out he's a vampire: they're walking down the street, maybe see something ahead that distracts them, or are confronted by someone "seeking directions" or something else, and Axel (or Axle) is knocked out from behind while Natalie is grabbed. They are dragged into an empty warehouse and Natalie is bound, everyone but Natalie, who notices he's moving, think Axel is out for a good while. Axel gets up and attempts to protect Natalie from the hungry eyes and rough hands of the attackers. One stabs him in the heart and her falls, they all believe dead. The men have their back to him, and he's up and quickly knocks them out and binds them. He explains everything to Natalie, who still accepts him, so happy ending there.